Post by havefaith on Sept 22, 2015 16:18:11 GMT -8
I know this sounds simplistic, but I have learned over the years, either a person is interested in pursuing an exclusive relationship or s/he is not. If s/he is interested, s/he makes it known, and if not, s/he makes that known too, with words and actions.
I have been pursued, I have been the pursuer -- and it only works when both parties are on the same page and both want to be in a mutually exclusive relationship. It can't be forced, it can't be one way -- two people have to be on the same page.
"No fault here" -- that is true. It just is. And one moves on...
Post by CodepNomore on Sept 22, 2015 19:31:25 GMT -8
I agree with everyone's take. However, to avoid wasting time & space, I am going for a different angle here...
My dad was a collector of women and he kept hoarding them even he had a new one already. He was just kept adding to his collection. There was no "goodbye" in his vocabulary. The more, the merrier for him.
Since he was my original "imago", I adapted his pattern when I was young. I had a collection of men from different places, races, with a tiny to huge age gap. I did not give proper closure and it remained "open for possibility". I was/am an adventurer and I wanted to "experiment". I also did not want to commit and yet almost each one of them most likely had thought, I was exclusive for him. And yes, most of them, I did not introduce to my family from the time of dating until separation. I played safe to maintain my "good image" with my family. So in a way or two, I admit that I was like this man you have dated.
It's really good that you are being true to yourself and you are choosing to maintain your standard and did not settle for anything less.
Our experiences are there for its purpose. They are our teachers to shape us. So yes, I will just take the lesson and move on. That's about it.
Your recovery is worth the pain of your withdrawal. Remember that "the pain you feel today will be the strength you feel tomorrow." Fantasy-based relationship is a lie. Face your reality and stay well!Kind Regards to all LAA members here, - Codepnomore
Yeah, I see him in a totally different phase of life. This is much like my last boyfriend, not really wanting to close the door wth exes, so it's not necessarily age, but more like a need to be liked and validated, or perhaps keep hangers on for an ego stroke. Or maybe these exes (including me) are great people who offer friendships he just doesn't want to lose. So be it, that's his choice. I understand wanting to part on good terms, but I just don't see the point in continuing to date if you see no future. I guess people define dating in different ways.
Had a sad, painful day yesterday but managed to go out jogging with a friend last night. She started bringing up thus guy (she's the one who introduced us) and I just said we won't be dating anymore since we're on different paths in our lives. I suppose that's really all this is. Nothing personal. I think I'll feel better today, although I am a little down because I can't seem to find a substantial romantic relationship. I guess I'm not owed one though.
My friend and I talked about scheduling a big international adventure next year. It will be nice planning and training for that!
No crushes right now. I guess the other facets of my life aren't so boring and empty that there will be a huge void to fill.
I felt some separation anxiety yesterday, but I was able to sit with it and feel it for a couple of hours. It felt like the flu, it hurt all over and I wanted to die. I cried like a lost baby and with each wail I wasn't sure I'd have another breath or if my heart was going to beat again. But it did.
Post by LovelyJune on Sept 23, 2015 5:00:27 GMT -8
Yeah, Paisley, I agree with the others, and you, that there's no fault here. But the simple fact that he wants to keep the door open with you leads me to believe you were spot on about what you sensed and worried about. I think it's very likely that these "other" "platonic" women were probably just like you at one point. DOn't you think? So...this is a good thing.
Maybe a little hard to see now.
Here's something that might help for next time: When I think back to my earlier, dating days with D, we actually had a conversation fairly early on to "define" what this was (i.e. our relationship) and we decided that we were not going to define it and that whatever was going to happen, would happen "organically," meaning no pushing, no pressure, no lines drawn, and no hoped for outcomes. If it worked it worked; if it didn't it didn't.
Well, for a love addict, this is a very difficult state to be in. Why? Because it means I am out of control. It means I could lose this man. It means I cannot possess or push or manipulate. And more importantly, it means we are not in a death grip with each other and he and I are both free to date anyone we want. Neither of us gave each other the right to exclusivity in the beginning--even though we both liked each other and even though neither of us were, quote-unquote, players. This arrangement of denying exclusivity was the best way that we could protect ourselves. And I soon learned that this was the healthiest way to be. That my way (to lock in a deal ASAP so as to be in control and have my security) was the unhealthy choice. And that this "organic" way, was THE way.
But I had to fight battles within myself at this phase. I had to make a commitment to the following principles: 1. NO FANTASY: I did not allow myself to dream up scenarios with this man in them. I did not allow myself to think of hoped for outcomes. And I did not allow myself to have dreamy reveries of the future. 2. NO EXPECTATIONS: Not only did I give up fantasy, I gave up the expectations that normally go along with dating, like, "I expect him to call," or "I expect him to be with only me," or "I expect flowers," and even, "I expect not to be ignored." Nope. Didn't expect any of those things. I only had BASIC expectations (I expect to be treated kindly, I expect to be treated with respect, and I expect to feel safe). When these items were not met, I determined I would move on. 3. A CHANGED DEFINITION OF DATING: Every time I dated in the past it had purpose. To find out if he's The One. Or, at the very least, to find out if he's the one I can have sex with and who will be in my life until I find The One. This time, I let go of my usual purpose and I changed it to "Whatever this is my only goal is to ENJOY this person." If I no longer enjoy this person, or it becomes difficult or a chore, that's it, it's over. But more than that, I removed all the previous layers of "purpose" that dating held for me. I tried to maintain a "take it or leave it" mentality. I was done with dating anyway, so this was kind of easy for me at this point. I subscribed to the idea of life (not just dating) being ORGANIC and happening on its own time. No pushing. No controlling. It actually felt freeing. 4. A WILLINGNESS TO LOSE: Letting go is very difficult for a love addict, but where I had come from I felt as if I had already experienced the greatest loss of my life. How could it get worse than being told after 8 months of a whirlwind love affair with a man I thought I was on the verge of marrying and spending the rest of my life with, "I don't love you and I don't think I ever did..."? So, I approached this new relationship not jaded, but resigned. I submitted to the will of the universe, as some would say. I was Free to expect that I was inevitably going to lose this relationship, so, I might as well just enjoy it while I can. A willingness to lose definitely takes away the pressure to try and hold on. When you know you're going to lose someone, you savor them. But you don't push or cling. You let go. You accept. Losing is inevitable. This is a mindset that we could all benefit from. 5. FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT: Lastly, by this point, I recognized my unhealthy behavior and I kept it under lock and key. As Susan Peabody used to say, Fake it Till You Make It. And that's exactly what I did. Early on there were two weeks where D kinda disappeared and didn't really contact me. It was here that I was tested. In my past life I would have "pushed" ("Where have you been? I miss you...") but I ignored the unhealthy voice and did not let it slip out. I "pretended" to have it all together, when I knew I really didn't. It was then that I knew I had joined the ranks of other healthy female single women who date. We all have insecurities. We all want the love life of our dreams. But, unhealthy people will try to control others to get it. Healthy people will sometimes bury their pain and deal with it until they're called to make a decision either way. In the end, I learned that D was seeing another woman (good for him. We were not bound at this point), but only to "wrap it up" with her so he could see me. D's ex wife also wanted him back at another point. My thinking? Fine. Go. I was doing great on my own. Had I jumped to conclusions or made assumptions about what could have happened, I would have acted from an unhealthy place. And worse, my (faulty) assumptions could have brought me to taking actions that should not be taken. As a "dater" my only responsibility is to listen to my gut and look out for red flags. And guess what, Dating other women at the same time is NOT a red flag. It is a normal part of dating. And so, I had no right to assert my will on him simply because I wanted him all to myself. Tough. Not there yet. Bottom line, sometimes the healthiest way to "be" is to suppress your feelings and fake a smile UNTIL you have concrete facts or commitments.
This is a lot to take in. I post it more for others than for you, Paisley. You have come quite far and know this stuff. It's just a matter of remembering it and aligning your thoughts with your words and your actions.
Last Edit: Sept 23, 2015 5:18:44 GMT -8 by LovelyJune
The dating other people seems so difficult for me. I lose interest when I find out he's pursuing someone else. I guess that's good to step back, but I'd see this person as nothing more than a friend if he was dating someone else and I'd be heartbroken if we'd shared any sort of physical intimacy and then I found out. I guess that's a good reason not to go to bed until your relationship reaches that level or you see a potential for it. I guess it's hard for me not to repel men either way...I can't enjoy no strings attached casual sex and most folks don't want to date someone who is so shut off sexually (in my experience, anyway) and I don't want to be shut off sexually. It just seems heartbreaking and embarrassing to put yourself out there for someone and have it be reciprocated, but then run into him out on the town with another gal on his arm. Most women I know see this as a reason to lose interest, and get angry about it. I don't seem to know any phase between deep commitment and complete indifference. My level of affection goes along with a level of loyalty towards a person. If he's dating Sally, Tracey and Jennifer...I'm probably not going to make time for him. I guess that's a shame for me because it draws me towards men who have little or no other options...not exactly quality dating material.
I see this as no different than A saying he doesn't know if he can ever commit to me (which is normal, considering we've only been dating two months) yet still wanting to be friends and go out. I guess A is saying he doesn't see a future with me due to my age, inability to have his kids, etc is a good enough reason to split though.
My gut tells me it's a signal of a lack of interest when a guy plans to see another gal, like this gal he was going to see. I guess he may just be running around as a healthy, single, young male though. It's frustrating to know that a man's healthy dating habits (seeing other people) happen to be my biggest trigger and turnoff.
And I have a hard time seeing the fine line between "player" and healthily dating multiple people.
I don't see how I could pull that off. I'd feel weird dating more than one guy after I decided I'm attracted to one. I also think I'd compare and prefer one over the others and I would not want to schedule time with guy #2 if it felt like that would cause me to miss out on seeing guy #1.
Hi Paisley, Me too. I have never been in what I would call a successful relationship-or rather a healthy relationship. I am trying to learn what one is and that's hard given my history of love addiction and co-dependency. I struggle quite a bit with that one.
If he's dating Sally, Tracey and Jennifer...I'm probably not going to make time for him. I guess that's a shame for me because it draws me towards men who have little or no other options...not exactly quality dating material.
If he's dating Sally, Tracey and Jennifer he sounds like a player. I agree! You'd most likely want to stay away from him. I know I would.
But this is a type. There are men out there who don't fit this type, who don't need to "play the field," but they do need time and space to get to know you, and vice versa.
So, this may need to go on your values list. "Not interested in dating multiple people and not interested in dating guys who date multiple people..."
And yet, a word of caution. And this goes for ALL of us. We have no right demanding exclusivity so soon. Just because we want it doesn't mean we have an immediate right to it. Exclusivity is earned. What we do have is our gut and our senses, which should tell us if we're dating a player or someone who seems more like a one on one kinda guy. That's all we've got.
Last Edit: Sept 23, 2015 12:06:54 GMT -8 by LovelyJune
Paisley, how are you doing??? I wanted to recommend a "must-read" book to you. It has probably been recommended before, but here it is again: A Fine Romance, by Judith Sills. When you're ready, pick up a copy! It deal with a lot of what we talked about here in this thread.
I'm doing great for the most part. I have experienced some short-lived periods of being in a funk, but nothing too bad. My calendar is loaded to the brim, as usual with travel for work and fun.
I know I need to work on my possessiveness. At this point, I'm surprised that it even made an appearance. I went into things with this guy knowing that it likely would not be long term...and yet I had these expectations. I'm not happy about that.
Part of me thinks I'm normal and the rest of the world is screwed up and detached. I think it's ok to prefer that a guy you're seeing isn't running off to spend a party weekend with another gal. I think I handled myself pretty well in this circumstance by expressing my displeasure, but I could have been more mature...and I certainly moved too fast.
I watched a movie where a gal was dating a guy and got asked out by another guy to a big event that could promote her career. She told the guy she was dating about the opportunity and he got upset about it. Duh. Well the gal left him because he was "insecure". I know it's just a movie, but it hit a sore spot with me. People actually consider their SO's dissatisfaction with finding out that you're going out with another man (a known womanizer in this case) to be "insecurity"?
If that's normal behavior, I want none of it. I understand not getting attached or invested too quickly. I understand relationships like this are not a need and you'll be OK if/when they don't work out. I'm there. I'm happy alone. But I do not consider a desire for exclusivity or uneasiness with your date being pursued by someone else to be a sign of being "insecure".
Really, in my insecure days I'd tolerate a man leading me on and using me up and being one of several women in his little black book. Now...I'd rather be alone than deal with someone who does not really see a chance of having a future with me. I speak up because I am SECURE enough to rock the status quo and yes, set some expectations that I won't be taken for granted or become part of an inventory of women in a guy's queue.
I just don't ever see myself as being OK with being one out of many and happily sending a guy off to be with someone else, no questions asked. Granted, sometimes it makes sense and there are respectful ways to have relationships with friends of the opposite sex, I'll just always see this as delicate territory and some day perhaps I'll meet a guy who agrees.
Strangely, the weekend after this latest breakup I took a girlfriend to a concert that I was going to take that guy to. After, we went to a pub and were talking to a couple of guys. I brought up how she was my date due to the unexpected breakup, and this guy said "well how about I'm your date now?" It was a fun night. He was super interested and got my phone number. He is not from here though and just left the country. I'm not sure when he'll come back or if he will come back around. I have no need to spark anything up over text messages so I just left it as "give me a call if/when you're back in the area and would like to get together". He said "I will". Ha!! I have zero expectations and life goes on. I will have to admit it was a nice boost in mood to have this (cute) guy being so sweet just for an evening. Kind of like a message that said "there are other fish in the sea". I'll just take it as that.
My social life is sublime. I've got a couple of new girlfriends who are really top notch, productive, intelligent women. I still have guy friends but I'm spending less time with people who are down and out (underdogs) who bring little or nothing to the relationship. I'm feeling less and less obligated to be there for people who seem to have no other options. I don't want single men getting too comfortable with all I have to offer.
This last guy I dated noticed that many of my friends are married couples. I'm friends with men AND their wives. I'm hanging out with couples who display the kinds of respectful, loving relationships that I want. Then I noticed that this guy I was dating, much like the guy before him, had a hard time establishing friendships with men. Maybe it's just harder for men, and women are more open to being friends which is why these nice guys have so many close female friends...but I think I'm more attracted to men who make a point to form close relationships with other men. I have met guys like this in my hiking/backpacking grouos. They exist. There is no reason for me to settle for a guy who wants me to be cool with him spending holidays with his female besties. No reason.
That being said, I don't want to be overly possessive and I want to trust. It will just take a special kind of person to appreciate my values that say these opposite sex friendships should be navigated with care to show consideration and respect towards the gal you are actually pursuing. I still think I'm right, even in such an early phase if dating, to interpret this sort of behavior as a lack of interest.
I set myself up for disappointment this time. Now I see this young guy fits the profile of the "unavailable man". The age is one thing...and it soon became clear that he'd never want me around his family, he didn't know if he wanted kids, and I would have been subjecting myself to a collection of young, single female friends. That's so not a fit in my life so I should be happy! And I am. .
I can clearly see how chasing the unavailable makes me unavailable. The guy that broke up with me wanted to go to this concert with me as friends. By going with my girlfriend instead, we met a couple of interesting, cute guys. Granted, nothing will likely come from it given the long distance...but I'm willing to bet I had a much better time with my girlfriend than I would have had with break-up guy. . I'm very glad I told him no. I really don't want him hanging around. He has no place in my life that I can see. He's unavailable for what I want. I'm not interested in becoming part of his collection.
Post by denverdignity on Oct 5, 2015 10:06:29 GMT -8
It sounds to me that you need a serious relationship and not just "see where it goes" kind of fun in the moment thing. I feel the same way now in my life, I used to feel why not live in the moment etc, but I find now that I really like to establish at some point early on if this person sees a future with me or atleast sees me as potential for a future, if not although it is nice to experience new people and not be just looking for the one, I atleast need to know they are on the same page and see a future because I get attached after I sleep with someone. Maybe dating without sleeping with someone will help to make a more relaxed feel and not so many expectations. It seems to be once we sleep with someone we feel more vulnerable and attached.
I still think I'm right, even in such an early phase if dating, to interpret this sort of behavior as a lack of interest...I now see this young guy fits the profile of the "unavailable man".
You are so right. And don't lose sight of what that "type" looks and acts like.
But I have to say, you are making the idea of "casual dating" more of the issue that the real issue...
No one here has said that you must accept the fact that guys will be guys, and it's ok, and even acceptable if a guy dates many women at the same time and you just have to live with it. While this happens and some women are Ok with it, you're not. I'm not either! Many women aren't. And that's OK. And no matter what you see in movies, I think it is still safe to say that guys who serial date are risky choices for women like us.
But, the REAL issue here, is not that you don't deserve a one on one guy. Of course you deserve that. And it's not about unavailability or possessiveness. It's about demanding and expecting too soon. When we lay down the law and make heavy demands on people so early into a relationship so as to meet our personal needs, we do two things:
-We create demands and expectations of a person who may not be capable of meeting those demands or expectations,
-We quickly take away the other person's right to process and to determine if we are even worthy of those demands and expectations being met (in other words, we try to control outcomes instead of allowing things to happen organically, or allowing others to come to their own conclusions).
Read the book I mentioned. It discusses this very thing. And I have to be honest, I did not want to read this book when I first read the title. A Fine Romance: the Passage of Courtship from Meeting to Marriage. It reminded me of those horrible "how to win the man of your dreams" scams. Marriage was the last thing I wanted anyway, after my divorce. And yet, this is one of only a handful of books that made such a huge impact on me that it changed the way I dated. I needed that.
And by the way, D had girl "friends" from his office etc. when I first met him. But, they all disappeared within a year or two. And while I can't say he had any "sleepovers" with them during this time, he had lunch dates, dinner dates and went to concerts with a couple of them. He also had an ex wife that wanted him back and parents that actively supported their re-marriage (let me tell you, that wasn't pleasant). I think it takes a good year or two for a single guy to cut his ties to his women friends. And if he's serious about you (and mature), he will be able to do this on his own. With virtually no pressure or prodding (by the third Christmas I finally said, "You need to stop having Christmas dinner with your ex wife at your parents' house. It's her or me." He got the message). If he's not serious, he may try to hold on to them. Either way, this process takes time. And you may not get your demands met right away. You may have to wait and see if he's serious.
Yep. I think I laid down heavy demands way too early. I actually apologized to him for that when we split. Like DD said, having sex early on (as I did) tends to lead to attachment for some of us. I know it does for me. I just can't go through the motions of a couple without feeling like I'm in a relationship. I need to keep that in mind and learn from it.
Yeah, I'd go nuts being several months in and having him tell me about other women he's seeing.
Actually, when I was married, I was incredibly open to the idea of my hubby (or SO prior to tying the knot) spending time with his ex. His son was in a bad accident in another state once and they actually had to share a hotel room due to a shortage of vailable rooms due to a disaster. I remember easily being able to send him off to do what he had to do...even knowing his ex was very emotional and vulnerable after being widowed and having their son in such a critical state. It made sense to let go and trust, and I did with ease.
What got me more was the two of them making any decisions that affected me without my input (financial, etc). Made me livid.
He also had another ex contact him out of the blue and I ecouraged him to meet up with her as she suggested. He ended up calling me after and (jokingly) said she informed him they had a 13 year old son and she wanted child support. As I was planning my exit, he laughed and told me no, she was actually in recovery and wanted to make amends for her part in the failures of their relationship. LOL
I just remember feeling so "good enough" and secure and really like he'd be naive to choose anyone over me so I never worried about getting the rug pulled out from under me at all.
In our later years, one of his best friends and our employee was a woman. They did stuff together without me in a regular basis. I never questioned it. He seemed tuned in to my feelings and considerate and I knew if I drew the line he'd protect out relationship over this friendship.
Turns out this gal was helping him cover up a year long affair with another young gal. I had it all wrong. I was devastated! I was humiliated!
The guy I last dated pointed out that I said more than once "I don't want to be naive". Seems that having this affair blow up in my face, seemingly out of nowhere has caused me to FEAR looking naive while sitting around clueless happily sending my man off to "date" other women. You'd think after all this recovery nearly six years later, I'd understand that it's not the end of the world if a guy doesn't want me. I think my confusion still remains over why he acted as if he did. Seriously, when I confronted them, they both tried to cover it up and their wish was to keep things going with me with this affair in the background. I still can't reconcile it, and I hate to punish other guys for his misdeed, but when a guy starts showing affection for another gal, I'm done. I'm just so done.
I know I contributed to the demise of my marriage and things were not perfect, but I hope people who cheat can understand what this does to a trusting partner. It destroys their ability to trust and decreases their ability to exist in a relationship in the future. It's so damaging.
He's apologized to me, and he's getting "punished" every day that he remains in a relationship with this gal. Their lives have been ransacked by her angry husband...and there is a kid involved. It's sad seeing him damage so many lives besides mine.
I guess I'm still damaged though. Blaming him only goes so far because I'm the one who has to live with this lack of trust.
I also feel like recovering from this affair is now part of who I am. When dating someone I feel close to (like this last guy and the guy before him) it comes out after things progress and the "why did you divorce" question is discussed. Certainly not first date conversation, but I knew both of these guys for a while before going there.
In both cases, I feel like the guys were not sensitive to this. Not that I want a guy walking on egg shells, but I'd expect someone who cares for me to approach such a subject like vacationing with another woman with sensitivity and tact. Not just, "I'm booking a trip to see so and so and we're going to have so much fun!" Or in the case of the guy before, having ex lovers occupy so much of his emotional energy that it was intrusive (after a year of dating).
So these are both probably just good examples of guys who are not right for me. Not bad people, just a little too insensitive to who I am, therefore ending things is good...not a failure.
Meanwhile, I would love to become that trusting gal I used to be. I still think they're idiots for blowing it with me...all of them. I think I'd be a great girlfriend to a guy who gets me. I just haven't found him and there's no guarantee I will.
My best girlfriend and I had this conversation yesterday about how we resent having to be so self actualuzed, independent, recovered, etc before we're "ready" for a relationship. I said there's a lot to be said for focusing on yourself and trying to heal and become a better person so we're more likely to experience a healthy romantic relationship...but you know what? If a guy comes along who gets you, who is sensitive to your past and your pain...it's going to be OK to let him in.
I guess that's what healthy boundaries are all about. Knowing yourself well enough to know who gets to be around. Who is good for me, who is bad, etc. The ability to make those choices for myself has taken a serious blow though, I just hope I can heal that enough so I don't run off everyone who comes along by trying to dictate what's appropriate behavior for him.
And someone will indeed be able to handle all your idiosyncrasies and trust issues, and there's zero reason to think you ever need to reach perfection before you are "worthy of love." We are worthy from day one. Even when we think we are worthless.
Post by denverdignity on Oct 5, 2015 18:06:04 GMT -8
I think he did want you (your last guy), you mentioned him not wanting you, I just think guys can be like oranges and women apples sometimes we don't see things the same. Deceit is deceit and your ex did you wrong but the recent guy was honest hes just not looking for what you are and you had a good time with him and learning experience and initially that's what you said you wanted from him...maybe you are feeling ready for someone who can offer more serious companionship and longer term..good for you you sound Like you know yourself and are trusting under the right circumstances but you know what you need to feel good and safe in a relationship. Next time maybe, whenever that is ..being alone can be nice too..you will feel safer with the particular guy you meet and these issues wont even come up but if they do you will have more tools to deal with it. Win win.
I commend you paisley, for your maturity, recovery, and introspection in handling this breakup. You did the right thing. I am proud of you.
Your recovery is worth the pain of your withdrawal. Remember that "the pain you feel today will be the strength you feel tomorrow." Fantasy-based relationship is a lie. Face your reality and stay well!Kind Regards to all LAA members here, - Codepnomore
paisley, I'd like to thank you for sharing this story here. I haven't commented before, but I've followed it. I gravitate towards the younger guys and therefore this has been of particular interest to me. My last guy was 12 years younger than me and us being in very different places in life was the reason it ended. Younger guys have a more modern touch to many things, are better looking and a lot of times not so serious, which is nice, and I generally just get to know younger guys more often than older ones. Maybe they are more open to new people. But for me the most important reason for getting interested in younger guys has probably still been just avoiding a relationship that could actually go somewhere. It's a case of instant gratification: they want you and like you and you like them, but it's likely they are not in the same place in life as you. Maybe this is not you, since I suppose you're not categorically interested in younger men, but maybe something to think about, because with a 19 years age difference the chances of it not working out are pretty high. Anyway, I hope you're doing better already!
Post by denverdignity on Oct 12, 2015 8:30:52 GMT -8
I agree, as mature as they may be for their age they just rarely work out in the long run and if we cannot handle a fling type situation best to steer clear or at least I try to now as it adds to heartache and trouble for me when I go that route (this is just speaking for me mainly not for others, Im sure many dec may romances can work long term). I try to tell myself, oh its just fun or the other, it could work out long term, but in the end for a love addict especially, and for someone who is more serious with commitment and love, playing with the younger guys means playing with fire..
it is nice to experience a few experiences /relationships with younger and you usually learn from each other but there seem to always be an end that was set the moment you started with them whether you like to ignore it or not, and in the end we (or I) get attached . We cannot blame them completely for their behavior at that age, they are just exploring the world and are in a different place they may jus be living in the now, but since they are in a mans body we put expectations on them that they may not be ready for yet.
Someone who has been in a 20 year marriage before who is the same age may have more baggage, scars, whatever, but they have experienced true long term commitment and know how to really commit love a woman and what goes along with it. They also know who mr. magoo is and grew up in the same era so in many ways have much more in common for bonding reasons, and they will get saggey and wrinkly at the same time as you so less to feel anxiety about.haha
Post by denverdignity on Oct 12, 2015 8:43:58 GMT -8
I read a fine romance it is really good, hard to get yourself to pick up and read because it a another relationship book at first but the ideas and thoughts in it are different refreshing and definitely would help with your questions with dating and how to navigate in the future, highly recommended!
I ordered it on amazon. Even my best friend saw it and I thought she would give me a hard time because she does not subscribe to the relationship help books but she said she had read it and liked it!
But for me the most important reason for getting interested in younger guys has probably still been just avoiding a relationship that could actually go somewhere.
I think this nails it. I think any time I settle for someone who is looking for a fling, I'm avoiding chances of being in the type of relationship I say I want.
I think saying "no" to his idea to just carry on with our day to day plans as friends was the right answer. When I took my girlfriend to the concert instead (and ended up meeting a cute guy) it was a great illustration of how this type of dead end relationship ultimately makes me unavailable. Why do I want a guy on my arm who doesn't belong there? I don't. Being unattached says I'm available, and that's what I am. That's the message I want to send.
And yes, I think this experience will make me appreciate the older guys more. scars and all.
I was at a business conference and met a cute, funny guy at a social event. Once again I seemed to have this immediate, strong connection. There was some high fiving that turned into hugs and this guy ended up being right beside me most of the night.
Another gal was shamelessly flirting with him, but he was focused on me. Quite a fun night.
We took the shuttle back to the hotel and he happened to be staying in the same tower, but he was a gentleman who never tried anything. We just said goodnight.
I saw him the next day, and he was on his way to the airport shuttle. I expressed disappointment because I thought he was staying another night and I was hoping to spend more time with him.
We did that awkward, "I guess I'll see you around" thing and he gave me a big hug then he was gone.
I started obsessing a bit, wishing I had given him my number. This was a business conference, for goodness sakes, and contact cards were being handed out like candy. Perfect opportunity to give him my card but I froze and did nothing. He didn't offer his either so there you go.
I beat myself up over it a bit then realized this guy lives 2300+ miles away in Canada. How do you launch anything with that kind of distance anyway? I already know a relationship based on messaging is not healthy for me, so this is the right thing.
I need to accept these "passing through" encounters for what they are and stop thinking I've met Mr Right. I also think this scenario (business conference attendees out of state or tourists visiting my city) is prime for men to let loose a little and be a little more friendly than they'd be if we were living in the same town.
That just seems to be my pattern right now, the handsome, charming stranger. Sigh. I certainly don't want to get caught up in hoping for relationships with unavailable men. I seem to be doing well in this regard though.
There's also a guy I've been talking to for a few months with a group. We were both at a birthday party on Sunday and he was super sweet. A mutual friend started talking to us as if me and this guy were going to be dating. I just went with it (because I am interested) and toasted to the idea, to which he raised his glass. Then he was sitting by some other gal exchanging numbers later on. He's not making any kind of move in my direction that I can tell so good luck to him and this gal if they make a connection. I can't force it. I'm putting myself out there but nothing substantial comes back...except his very affectionate hug and flirty remarks as we walked towards my car.
I don't understand him, and I'm not going to try. Surely I have better things to do.
Kind of crushing on two guys now. I've known them both for several months. For the most part I'm just playing it cool, but I have been flirty with one guy and he's been flirty back, but I notice he's friendly to several women. Not really a "player" as far as I can tell, but more like he's not looking to jump into anything with anyone, but he likes to do things and be a friend. He's been a good friend so far. I just give him space. I feel no need to pounce on him. Actually, this other gal came along and obviously likes him and when we're all out, she's kind of monopolizing his space and time. No biggie. If they work out together, good for them! (Seriously). But I can tell by the end of the evening he wants to talk to me and he does. We tend to have more in common than he and this other gal. I personally think he and I are better suited together, but not my call. I'm quite content letting this stuff work itself out. I kind of feel a little superior....not being so assertive and obvious like this other gal. If she's what he wants, so be it. I'll be quite alright.
Then the other guy. Oh he gives me the butterflies. So attractive and just a neat person. I have a married couple I've been spending lots of time with. The husband likes to match make. He's a big fan of mine. . He mentioned this guy and potentially getting together with him. I just let it be known that I like the guy. If he sets up a scenario like a wine tasting or dinner party where we're all together, I won't be offended.
Just want to keep it in check. I know I am prone to spending my time pining over guys who give me nothing in return, so I want to keep it in perspective and not get all hopeful over two guys who aren't giving me any reason to think they're interested in dating, etc. Nice to have two bachelors in the vacinity though.
What recovery tools do you use? Dating is such a small part of recovery.
Last Edit: Nov 23, 2015 13:58:10 GMT -8 by Susan P.
Been doing well to focus on my life lately. Started a new job that's keeping me super engaged and busy with complex work. My office is very nice...I'm basically living my dream job right now. Financially secure, I have career goals again, I'm exercising regularly and feel pretty much on top of the world.
Then last night the preoccupation with a guy starts up. It came out of no where. Got together with some friends and this friend of a guy friend of mine joins us. I've known him from a distance for a couple of years. Thing is, I always thought he was married or in a relationship. There was a gal there with us one time, and I have no idea why, but I assumed she was his wife.
He's been friendly but not in an "in your face" kind of way, so I always just chalked him up as unavailable. Well over the past few months, he's been around more and we've talked quite a bit. He invited me to go jet skiing with him this summer (nothing specific, just "you want to go jet skiing this summer?") and I said yes, then he was talking about how between him and this other guy they have 8 jet skis and I said, "oh yeah, for your wife and kids". He says no, he doesn't have any kids and is SINGLE and I know I showed pleasant surprise. We had a fun, smiley, flirty night with the group of friends but then I noticed how he kept bring the other guys into our interactions which made me question his interest, and hence the current preoccupation and obsession in figuring out this puzzle.
Dang it. I want to see more of him and would like him to take more initiative in seeing me one on one, but I have no control over that and need to let this go. Oh, his friend (my guy friend) mentioned me and him getting together today so I find myself in the familiar dynamic of a guy liking me, but me only wanting a platonic friendship with him, but wanting a romantic relationship with his friend. I know this is a trap I need to avoid, and I know it's in my head. I can set boundaries with my friend and keep the friendship as a friendship, and I can be available to date his friend should he want the same thing...I just need to try very hard not to get sucked into this obsessing over the guy who isn't really asking me out. Even the jet ski invite was pretty vague, undetermined and was directed at me and my friends, not me specifically, I feel.
Regardless, we shared a long, warm hug when he left and I had a great time! I need to enjoy that even if things aren't going exactly as I'd have them go.
I just needed to put this down to sort out my thoughts so I can make extra effort to "let it go". If we end up getting closer (it feels it's headed that way) then I'll have to take it as it comes. I don't like this part of me who wants to know for sure where I stand and what direction things are going. I know my obsession only kicked in because I felt him pulling back a little and he didn't leap into the next step that I want. His friend (my friend) may be standing in the way or he may have a slew of other issues I'm just not seeing yet, or a combination of the two. More will be revealed.
I made a promise to myself that this year I'm not going to design my life around the hopes of landing a man so I want to stick with that. No chasing. No controlling. No strategizing. I felt I was living up to that last night. I stopped worrying about who I invite, who invites me, who shows up and how everyone relates to each other. Not my job. Last night was carefree and relaxed and then boom, I start looking at this guy from a different angle after he tells me, "oh no, you've got me pegged wrong. I'm VERY MUCH SINGLE". Flutter...and there's nothing wrong with a crush...I can just do without the obsessing. It's a red flag...and I know the right answer is to step back and let life happen.
So this pattern is repeating again. I have a friend, I like the guy, he's being a FRIEND back to me, and not taking it further so this "crush" starts on my end. I can see clearly that it's because of his aloofness. I was talking to two friends (a happy couple) who know both me and this guy and they helped me sort it out. Maybe I can let it go. I feel like I am.
The couple tells me the guy isn't making a move because he knows I'm out of his league. He's nice enough, but we have different backgrounds, me being an educated professional, him being more blue collar and no higher education. They were clear that this is not a moral judgment...he is a great guy. He's fun, he's sweet and he has many great qualities that I find attractive...but he is not going to put himself fully out there with someone like me. Maybe they were just boosting my ego, but I'm going to take it.
I know I'll see him again, and it's important to him that we remain in contact as friends. I'll get hugs...maybe a kiss on the check or hand...he will be a perfect gentleman and open doors for me, let me go first in line, etc. He will give me compliments and maybe flirt a little here and there. What I won't get is lots of phone calls and texts just to see what I'm doing. There will be no communication or contact sometimes for weeks at a time which is perfectly ok considering he's not my boyfriend and we aren't dating.
Instead of being triggered by that or seeing his behavior as "hot/cold", I need to stop looking at him in the context of a potential boyfriend and stop letting his level of attention towards me be the gauge of my worth or my mood. Why should it? He never gave me any reason to think he wants anything more than my friendship. There are other women and men we hang out with who are also treated as friends with no further expectations so why not him? Why do I task him with the responsibility of having this "go somewhere" when it clearly is going somewhere? We have a friendship that's getting stronger as we get to know each other better. It happens to be platonic.
I usually seem him every couple of weeks, along with our group of friends. We're planning other adventures together. We're planning a trip to Central America later in the year. My gosh, why should I be disappointed with this friendship or expect anything more? I'm going to try to stop doing that. Right now.